Finding Your Ikigai - Your Reason for Being

Announcer:00:06

Trade your corporate shoes for sandals and your desk for a deck chair. This is the Casual Mondays podcast with Kevin Donahue, sharing sharing conversations about the highs, lows, and all of the in betweens the and helping retirees enjoy their brightest days.

Kevin Donahue:00:27

There's a village in Okinawa, Japan where people routinely live past 100, healthy, active, purposeful. When researchers asked these centenarians the secret to their longevity, the answer wasn't diet or exercise, though those certainly mattered. It was a single word, ikigai, your reason for being, that thing that gets you out of bed in the morning. And here's what stopped me cold. In the Okinawan dialect, there's no word for retirement.

Kevin Donahue:01:06

Because when you have ikigai, you don't retire from anything. You retire to something. That something, that's what we're discovering today on the Casual Mondays podcast. Welcome back to the Casual Mondays podcast, the retirement podcast for honest conversations about the good, the bad, and all the in between on retirement. Thank you for streaming the podcast.

Kevin Donahue:01:45

Your five star reviews, your comments, and voice mails mean the world to me as we're creating this community. If this is your first time streaming an episode, welcome to the Casual Mondays podcast. I'm Kevin Donahue. And whether you're planning your next adventure or still figuring out this whole retirement thing exactly, well, you're in exactly the right place. Let's dive in.

Kevin Donahue:02:14

On today's show, we're traveling virtually to the island of Okinawa, Japan. I want to apologize to the entire nation of Japan in advance as there are some Japanese words that I am going to absolutely butcher today. Truly, truly sorry. Please forgive me. In fact, before I do any more damage to US Japanese relations, let's get the correct pronunciation of Ikigai.

Kevin Donahue:02:47

The word refers to having a direction or purpose in life. How do you go about pronouncing it? Ikigai. Ikigai. Ikigai.

Kevin Donahue:03:01

Hey. What do you know? I, this guy almost got Ikigai correct. Let me tell you about my friend Tom. Retired at 53.

Kevin Donahue:03:14

Great pension. Solid investments. The freedom everyone dreams about. The first month of retirement for Tom, paradise. He slept in.

Kevin Donahue:03:25

He played golf. He caught up on projects. Month three, he played so much golf, He was sick of playing golf. All the projects were done, and he found himself at 10AM on a Tuesday sitting in his kitchen thinking, now what am I gonna do? His wife suggested volunteering.

Kevin Donahue:03:44

So Tom did. Three different organizations filled his calendar, stayed busy. Six months in, he told me something that stuck with me. He said, Kevin, I'm busier than I ever was when I worked, but I've never felt more aimless. Tom had fallen into what experts call the activity trap.

Kevin Donahue:04:10

See, most retirement advice sounds like this. Stay busy, volunteer, travel, learn to paint, join clubs, and that's not wrong, but it's incomplete. Because here's the truth. Busy doesn't equal purposeful. You can fill every hour of every day and still feel empty.

Kevin Donahue:04:33

Let me say that again. You can fill every hour of every day and still feel empty. You can have a packed calendar and still wake up wondering, what's it all really for? And that feeling, that's what the Japanese concept of Ikigai addresses. Now before we go further, let me acknowledge a few things.

Kevin Donahue:05:02

I am not Japanese. I haven't lived in Okinawa, but I've studied the research behind why people in certain places live longer, healthier, more fulfilled lives as I've tried to put my retirement story together. And Ikigai keeps showing up. A gentleman named Dan Butner, the researcher behind the Blue Zones Project, if you're familiar with that, these are the five places in the world where people live the longest, found that all five zones share something in common, a sense of purpose. In Okinawa, they call it ikigai.

Kevin Donahue:05:44

In Costa Rica, it's pon de vita. Sardinia, it's embedded in their culture contribution, but the concept is universal. You need a reason to get up in the morning that goes beyond just passing time. People with strong ikigai live on average seven years longer than those without it. And this isn't seven years of frail decline.

Kevin Donahue:06:12

It's seven years of active, engaged living. The Stanford Center on Longevity found that purpose predicts well-being more than wealth, more than health status, more than social connections, though all three of those matter greatly. Think about that for a second. Your sense of purpose matters more than how much money you have. So what is ikigai exactly?

Kevin Donahue:06:43

The literal translation is reason for being, but it's deeper than that. It's not your job. It's not your hobby. It's not a passion project. Those those can all be expressions intersection of who you are, what you offer, and what the world needs.

Kevin Donahue:07:06

It's what makes you feel like your life has meaning beyond just existing. And here's the challenge for us in retirement. We've spent forty years confusing our job with our purpose. Think about it. When someone asked, what do you do?

Kevin Donahue:07:25

You answered with your job title. You said, oh, I'm a sales manager. When you felt purposeful at work, it was tied to projects or promotion, recognition. Your career provided the structure, the goals, the feedback loop that made you feel like you mattered. Then you retire, and suddenly, three myths start creeping in.

Kevin Donahue:07:55

Myth one, the goal is relaxation. Total myth. You have earned rest. Absolutely. But rest is recovery, not purpose.

Kevin Donahue:08:10

After a month of sleeping in and doing nothing, most retirees start feeling restless because humans aren't wired for a permanent vacation. There's actually research on this from the University of Michigan. They studied retirees who embrace the endless vacation mindset versus those who found new sources of purpose. Within six months, the endless vacation group showed higher rates of depression and lower rates of life satisfaction. We need purpose just like we need food and sleep.

Kevin Donahue:08:48

Myth number two, you've earned doing nothing. This one's particularly toxic because it sounds so reasonable. You have worked hard. You do deserve to kick back. Heck, open a beer, have a drink, and relax.

Kevin Donahue:09:06

But doing nothing isn't the dream we thought it is or would be. The dream was freedom to choose what we want to do. Big difference. When Tom said he felt aimless despite being busy, what he meant was, I'm filling up my time, but it doesn't seem to matter. Right?

Kevin Donahue:09:31

That's not laziness. That's a lack of Ikegai. Myth number three, your purpose was your career. This one is toxic. Because if you believe your purpose died when you turned in your identification badge, then retirement feels like a slow decline.

Kevin Donahue:09:53

I can remember, at my alma mater, the legendary head coach Bobby Bowden, when people asked him when he wanted to retire. He said, I don't wanna retire because what comes next? You just sit around waiting to die. And how sad is that? But that is an indication of someone's purpose being their career.

Kevin Donahue:10:16

But here's the truth. Your job was never your Ikegai. Your job provided structure around your Ikegai. And now that the structure's gone, we need to find what was underneath it all along. Maybe you were a teacher.

Kevin Donahue:10:34

Your job was education, but your Ikegai, maybe it was actually unlocking potential in others just as legendary FSU coach Bobby Bowden did. That doesn't retire. That just needs a new expression. If you were in sales, maybe your job was hitting quotas, but your IK guy, maybe it was solving problems for your clients, and that is still in you. It just looks different.

Kevin Donahue:11:06

Now I wanna offer you a warning sign to look for. You know that Sunday night dread you had before Monday? That sinking feeling of tomorrow, the grind starts all over again. If retirement starts to feel like a permanent Sunday, if you're relieved there's no Monday morning alarm clock, but you don't know why you're relieved, that's your signal. You don't need to fill your life with more activities.

Kevin Donahue:11:43

You need more meaning. You need more purpose. You need more ikigai. So how do you find it? That's what we're unpacking next.

Kevin Donahue:11:56

But first, a few housekeeping notes. If this is your first episode, you'll find all the links to our discussions, books, websites from today's episode in the show notes on your podcast app. If you can't find them or you wanna share them with someone, I'll post them also on our homepage at casualmondayspodcast.com. You found us on your podcast app, but I also wanna let you know that we're streaming with video on YouTube. You can find us on Apple, Amazon, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcast.

Kevin Donahue:12:39

I mentioned previously that I love to hear from you and get you involved in the show. Just go to the casualmondayspodcast.com. Join our Casual Mondays club. That's where you'll find more discussions, some behind the scenes, some stories you've submitted, and links in your email about once a month. Sometimes I may not be once a month.

Kevin Donahue:13:05

Sometimes it might be every five weeks. Just depends on how my Ikki guy is going. Lastly, if you wanna share your story, please click record a voice mail on our website. It's incredibly easy. Casualmondayspodcast.com.

Kevin Donahue:13:23

Click record a voice mail. You can do it with your phone, your tablet, your computer. We would love to hear your stories, your feedback, questions, and suggestions. Let's see. We have a voice mail today.

Kevin Donahue:13:38

This is from Ron in Oklahoma City.

Voicemail:13:41

Hi. This is Ron from OKC. Thanks for the podcast and focusing on more than just investments, taxes, and Social Security. I think you've got the right idea to focus on what you're retiring to. No one ever had that conversation with us, at least not with me back in the day.

Voicemail:14:02

I Think I went into a funk after I retired because I didn't know what to do with myself. That's hard for people and you feel emptier when people around you are wanting you to be happier. It's a big deal, and I'm really glad you're talking about it. Thanks for the show, and looking forward to what comes next. Bless you and your family.

Kevin Donahue:14:28

Thank you, Ron. Greatly appreciate it. Always great to hear from those who are benefiting, from the podcast, and I appreciate very much your perspective that this sort of show wasn't available previously. Hopefully, that's a void we're filling. As a token of thanks for leaving a voice mail, we are gonna send you, Ron, a lifetime premium code for the Retirement Success Graph app on iOS.

Kevin Donahue:14:58

I wrote that app to bring analyst level analysis to your phone without surrendering your data or paying an annual subscription. The purpose of the app is to stress test your retirement plan against one hundred years of US economic and market data, score your plan, give you simple suggestions for improvement. Retirement success graph, excuse me, retirement success graph is free on the Apple App Store, and we'll give you a premium code worth $5 to every one of you leaving a voicemail on our website at casualmondayspodcast.com. Alright. That's it for housekeeping notes.

Kevin Donahue:15:42

Let's get back to our Ikki guy. I want you to imagine four circles. Each of the circles overlaps, and all four overlap in the center. Many of you will be familiar with this concept as a Venn diagram, the overlapping circles. And you've probably seen them before, especially if you worked in a corporate role.

Kevin Donahue:16:11

If you're not familiar, I'll put an example on the screen right now for YouTube, and I will add an example in the show notes. Where all four of these circles intersect, that's your ikigai, your reason for being. But here's where we need to adapt this for retirement. The traditional model was designed for life purposes and careers, and we're working with something completely different now in retirement. So let me walk you through the four circles retirement edition.

Kevin Donahue:16:50

Circle one, what you love. Not what you love twenty years ago, not what everyone thinks you should love, what genuinely energizes you now. The question to ask yourself is, if money and obligation completely disappeared, what would I do? And I don't mean lie on a beach forever because we already established that gets old after about three weeks and a little sandy. I mean, what activity makes you lose track of time?

Kevin Donahue:17:25

What conversation topics light you up? What problems do you enjoy solving? Let me give you an example. Sarah was a financial analyst for thirty years. She was excellent at it, made VP, led teams, the whole track.

Kevin Donahue:17:43

When she retired, everyone assumed she'd consult or do financial planning. And at first, she thought that's what she would do because that's what everyone was telling her. But when we spoke, if money and obligation disappeared, what would you do? But when we spoke and she started to think about her purpose with money and obligation being no commitment, she said, I wanna teach, but not finance. I wanna teach people how to understand their money so they're not intimidated by it.

Kevin Donahue:18:25

I spent thirty years in boardrooms talking about millions of dollars. The conversations that energized me were always the ones where I help someone finally get their four zero one k. Turns out Sarah loved empowering people through finance. She didn't love finance itself. That was just the vehicle.

Kevin Donahue:18:46

So circle one isn't what's your career, it's what lights you up. And here's the key. This might surprise you. You might discover you love something that you never had time for or something you were good at but never valued because it wasn't your job. Circle two, what you're good at.

Kevin Donahue:19:11

Forty years of skills don't disappear when you turn in your ID. But here's the trick. We need to separate what I'm good at versus what I was paid to be good at. Your transferable skills versus your corporate role. Maybe you were a project manager.

Kevin Donahue:19:29

Corporate role, managing timelines and deliverables. But the skill, seeing big pictures, moving coordinated pieces, keeping people accountable without being a jerk. Those skills don't retire. I was in luxury hospitality for twenty five years. Was I good at filling hotel rooms?

Kevin Donahue:19:50

Sure. But really, I was good at understanding what people needed before they knew they needed it. Building relationships and creating experiences that mattered. Those skills showed up in my career. They show up in this podcast.

Kevin Donahue:20:09

They'll show up in whatever I do next because circle two is about honest inventory. What do I actually bring to the table? And here's the sneaky way to identify this. What do people ask you to help them with? Not in your job, but in life.

Kevin Donahue:20:30

What do friends call you for help with? What does your family rely on you for? Maybe people always ask you to help them think through decisions. That's a skill. Maybe people ask you to organize events.

Kevin Donahue:20:46

Maybe people ask you to fix their iPhone or edit their resumes or recommend a wine or calm them down when they're anxious. That's usually where your real skills live. The things you do so naturally, you don't even think of them as skills. The American psychological in the American Psychological Association has done research on what they call signature strengths. The abilities that come so easily to us that you assume everyone must have them.

Kevin Donahue:21:23

They don't. Those are your gifts. Okay. We've got our two circles. Circle three, what the world needs.

Kevin Donahue:21:34

Now don't panic. We're not talking about solve climate change or cure cancer or any of those things. The world in this context means your world, your community, your family, the people in your immediate orbit. It's the gap between what exists and what could exist that you're uniquely positioned to fill. Maybe your neighborhood needs someone who organizes.

Kevin Donahue:22:08

Your grandkids need someone who listens without judgment. Your former industry needs someone to mentor the upcoming generation. One retiree I know, his name's David, noticed his community had no gathering spot for older adults who didn't want bingo night but wanted true intellectual conversation. So he started a philosophy club at the library. First week, four people showed up.

Kevin Donahue:22:39

Now there's a wait list, and they're on their third year. He didn't save the world. He filled a gap that he noticed. Circle three is about looking around and asking what's missing that I can contribute. And here's what's beautiful about this.

Kevin Donahue:22:58

You don't need to look far. Again, Stanford Center on Longevity's research on purpose in aging found the most sustainable sources of purpose are local and relational. Not grand global, but real needs you can address with people in your neighborhood. Circle four. What can you be rewarded for?

Kevin Donahue:23:27

Okay. This is where we need to make a critical retirement shift because in the traditional Ikigai model, rewarded usually means paid for or recognized for. But in retirement, that's optional. Some of you are gonna go on and do encore careers where you get paid. Great.

Kevin Donahue:23:48

But most of us won't. And that's also great because in retirement, reward can mean fulfillment, the feeling that I matter or recognition. Someone saying, thank you. That helped me so much. Or seeing the impact of your contribution, creating new relationships through your purpose, internally, growing, learning, developing.

Kevin Donahue:24:22

When David started that philosophy group, his reward wasn't money. It was seeing people light up in conversation. It was gratitude. It was friendships formed. It was knowing he created something that didn't exist before.

Kevin Donahue:24:38

In New York, the University of Rochester research on self determination theory distinguishes between extrinsic rewards, so money, status, recognition, and intrinsic rewards, meaning growth and connection. In your career, those external rewards drove you. Had to. You needed the paycheck. In retirement, intrinsic awards can be enough.

Kevin Donahue:25:10

Sometimes they're even more satisfying. So ask yourself, what reward am I actually seeking? If it's a paycheck, fine. There are ways to monetize your ikigai. But if it's fulfillment or contribution, that changes everything about what's possible.

Kevin Donahue:25:32

So we have our four circles. And again, these are in the show notes so you can take a look at them and really spend some time thinking about them. But where all four of them overlap, that's your sweet spot. What you love plus what you're good at plus what the world needs plus what you can be rewarded for. That overlap is your reason for being.

Kevin Donahue:26:04

And here's the beautiful part. It doesn't have to be one thing. You might have multiple IK guys. They might evolve over time. Your Ike guy at 55 might be mentoring professionals.

Kevin Donahue:26:22

But at 70, your Ike guy might be teaching your grandkids about woodworking. Both are valid and purposeful. The Japanese Ministry of Health has studied this for decades, and people with strong Ikegai have lower rates of cardiovascular disease, better cognitive function, higher life satisfaction regardless of income, greater resilience through transitions. These are things that we all strive for. There was a Harvard study, which has followed people for over eighty five years, found the same thing.

Kevin Donahue:27:04

Purpose matters more than wealth when it comes to your happiness. So if you're sitting there thinking, I don't know my Ike guy. Good. That means you're being honest. Most people don't find it in a lightning bolt moment.

Kevin Donahue:27:22

It's cultivated, which brings us to how. Here's why all that find your passion advice fails. It assumes passion exists fully formed, just waiting to be discovered, like it's buried treasure and you just need the right map. But Ikegai isn't found. It's cultivated through experimentation, reflection, and small adjustments.

Kevin Donahue:27:53

Stanford's research on growth mindset applies here as well. People who believe purpose is something you develop are more likely to find it than people who believe it's something you discover. One is active, the other is passive. So let's talk about a practical exploration process, and we'll call it our three month Ikegai experiment. Not because you have it all figured out in three months, but because three months is long enough to see patterns without maybe feeling overwhelmed.

Kevin Donahue:28:31

So month one, a curiosity audit. Spend thirty days paying attention to your attention. Here's your assignment. List 10 things that make you lose track of time. Notice conversations which energize you versus drain you.

Kevin Donahue:28:51

Ask yourself, what did I love at age 12 before life pressure hit? That last one is powerful. Before you had to be practical, before you had to make something of yourself, what was your calling? Sometimes our IK guy was there all along just buried under these decades of adulting. Keep simple notes on your phone.

Kevin Donahue:29:17

When something sparks your curiosity, just write it down. Not for any specific reason, just notice it. Maybe it's a conversation with your neighbor about gardening. Maybe it's the article you read about architecture. Maybe it's helping your friend think through a career decision.

Kevin Donahue:29:38

No judgment, no analysis, just write it down, collect the data. MIT did a study and found that awareness is our first step towards intentional change. Makes sense. Right? You are sweaty and you notice that you smell.

Kevin Donahue:29:59

The first thing you do before you can fix it is notice what's happening. So here, we want you to notice what's happening. You can't design purpose until you know what actually energizes you. Month number two. Now we're doing inventory.

Kevin Donahue:30:20

Career skills without job titles. What are you good at? What do people ask you to help with? What comes so easily to you that you're surprised everyone can't do it? That last one matters.

Kevin Donahue:30:36

Often, our greatest skills feel so natural that we will dismiss them. Anyone could do that. No. They can't. That's your zone of genius.

Kevin Donahue:30:51

Write it down and be specific. Not, I'm good at leadership. Try, I'm good at seeing what people need before they ask and creating space for them to succeed. See the difference? One is a corporate buzzword.

Kevin Donahue:31:09

The other is an actual human intelligence skill. Do this exercise with someone who knows you well because we're often blind to our own strengths. Ask them, what do you see me do easily that others struggle with? Their answer might surprise you. Month three, we're gonna do a need exploration.

Kevin Donahue:31:33

Now we're looking outward. What frustrates you that you could fix? What gap do you notice that others don't? Where do you see potential that's not being realized? Again, we're not saving the world.

Kevin Donahue:31:50

It's about noticing, this thing could be better, and I could probably help with that. One retiree I know, his name is Michael, he noticed that his town's history was disappearing as the older residents passed away. No one was doing anything to document their stories. So he started recording oral histories. Just simple interviews with longtime residents about what the town used to be like.

Kevin Donahue:32:24

Small project, huge impact. Now the local library has an archive. Schools use it for history projects, and Michael has a reason to get up every Tuesday morning. That was his Ike guy emerging. The University of Michigan's research on purpose in retirement found the most meaningful purposes start with noticing.

Kevin Donahue:32:51

Not with grand plans, with paying attention to what's needed. Before we move on, I I feel like I need to say this clearly. You don't need to find the one Ike Gai. You have permission to have multiple purposes. You have permission for your Ike Gai to evolve.

Kevin Donahue:33:15

You have permission to try something for six months and decide, nope. That wasn't it. This is not Tastone tablets. This isn't a life sentence. It's experimentation.

Kevin Donahue:33:29

Your IK guy at 55 is allowed to look different than your IK guy at 75. That's not failure. That's life. Let's take a moment, and we'll be right back.

Announcer:33:48

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Announcer:34:17

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Kevin Donahue:34:50

Okay. We've done the exploration. We've got our emerging ideas. Now what? Here's where people stall out crash and burn.

Kevin Donahue:35:01

Okay? It's turning that discovery into a daily practice. Every morning before you check your phone, you dive into the day, ask yourself, what small thing can I do today that serves my Ike guy? Not what monumental purpose will I fulfill today? Small, daily, aligned.

Kevin Donahue:35:25

If your Ike guy is mentoring, maybe today you send one encouraging message to someone starting their career. If your Ike guy is creativity, maybe today spend thirty minutes on your project, not finishing it, just engaging with it. Small, consistent alignment beats occasional grand gestures every time. Your IK guy isn't something you do on weekends. It's something that's woven into how you live.

Kevin Donahue:36:04

Let me give you three common patterns I see. You might be one or all three or none of them yet, and that's fine. Archeotype one, the mentor. Your IK guy sits at the intersection of what you're good at and what others need. You've got skills, experience, perspective that others lack because they're earlier in their journey, and you help bridge that gap.

Kevin Donahue:36:32

An example of this might be a former executive who coaches small business owners. Maybe they're paid, maybe they're volunteer, but they give a few hours a week. The impact? Absolutely immeasurable. Sarah, our financial analyst VP who became this, she now teaches free financial literacy workshops at the community center.

Kevin Donahue:36:57

Two hours on Thursday morning. That's her e k guy. Number two, the creator. It kinda sits at the intersection of what you love and what you're good at. You make things.

Kevin Donahue:37:12

You build things. You write things. The act of creation is your purpose. For example, maybe you created a podcast when you retired to speak passionately about helping others and lifting others up in their retirement journey. I'm not pointing fingers, but there are people like that.

Kevin Donahue:37:37

Third, the connector. Your Ike guy sits at the intersection of what others need and what you love. You bring people together. You see relationships that could benefit all parties and you make them happen. For example, a retiree who organizes all the neighborhood events, who starts the book clubs or creates spaces for connection.

Kevin Donahue:38:01

Time commitment, episodic, but very high impact. David with his philosophy group is this. He creates community. That's his Ike guy. The American Psychological Association's research on motivation and aging shows that people often have multiple sources of purpose, and that's actually healthier than a singular focus.

Kevin Donahue:38:26

So you you might be all three. You might shift between them. That's richness. That's encouraged. Here's the key.

Kevin Donahue:38:37

Ikigai isn't separate from your life. It's woven through it. Your day might include a morning walk for health, a mentoring call for purpose, a creative project for fulfillment, family dinner for connection. Each can serve different aspects of your Ikegai. None of them require a forty hour a week job.

Kevin Donahue:39:04

This is the beautiful shift from career to retirement. It can be integrated throughout your days, your weeks, your years. Tom. Remember him? The guy who felt aimless despite being busy?

Kevin Donahue:39:22

Here's what he discovered his ikigai was. Helping people helping people think clearly about complex decisions. For thirty years, that showed up in his work as a consultant. Now it shows up in mentoring young professionals, in serving on a nonprofit board, in being the person his friends call when they're stuck on a big decision. Those things occupy maybe ten hours a week of Tom's structured time, but it's woven throughout his life and he no longer feels aimless.

Kevin Donahue:40:06

You don't need to quit retirement and start a new career. Just need to weave purpose through the life you're building. Okay. Here's your homework. And, yes, I am calling it homework because this truly matters.

Kevin Donahue:40:24

Take out a piece of paper or open your notes app on your phone. Draw four overlapping circles. Label them what I love, what I'm good at, what the world needs, what I can be rewarded for. In each circle, write three to five items. Don't overthink it because first thoughts are usually the true thoughts.

Kevin Donahue:40:58

Then ask yourself, what appears in multiple circles? Those are often your strongest leads. What surprise showed up that I hadn't expected? What experiment could I run this week to test one intersection? That last one is crucial.

Kevin Donahue:41:22

This isn't just a thinking exercise. It's a doing experiment. Pick one small thing, test it, see how it feels. Maybe you think your Ike guy involves teaching. Try offering to help someone learn something this week.

Kevin Donahue:41:39

Creativity. Spend one hour this week creating anything. If it involves connecting people, organize a gathering, even if it's just coffee for two friends. Small experiments reveal big truths. Your Ike Gai isn't something you find in a moment of clarity on a mountaintop.

Kevin Donahue:42:03

It's something you cultivate through small experiments, honest reflection, and course correction. The Okinawans don't have a word for retirement because they never stopped having a reason to wake up. What's yours? In our next episode, we're taking your Ike Gai and building a daily structure around it. Creating structure without the nine to five because freedom without rhythm is just chaos in disguise.

Kevin Donahue:42:43

But structure without purpose is just unpaid work. Once you know your why, your IK guy, we're going to learn how. That's what we're tackling next on the Casual Mondays podcast. I'm Kevin Donahue. Your reason for being is out there.

Kevin Donahue:43:06

Or more accurately, it's in you. Let's find it.

Announcer:43:13

Thank you for streaming today's episode. For more from our conversation, you'll find links and resources in the show notes. If you would like to join the show, record your story as a voice message on our website casualmondayspodcast.com. You'll also find our Casual Mondays club newsletter on the website with behind the scenes notes, suggestions, and previews delivered to your email inbox every month. As always, be sure to click subscribe in your app so our future episodes are available automatically.

Announcer:43:40

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